Author Topic: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?  (Read 333 times)

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Offline Jan

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Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« on: August 05, 2011, 11:25:31 »
I was rather intrigued by this comment and wanted to explore the evidence which suggests it not to be the case.

Man has the ability to decide whether or not to do caring things, which I don't think animals can.

This link would suggest otherwise.

Dolphins

'Amor Vincit Omnia' ?

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Offline Martin

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2011, 13:25:24 »
What's required in a brain, for it to do a caring thing, is the ability to see a situation and anticipate an outcome if you were to do something.   It's a similar sort of skill to the use of a tool to achieve an abjective - a brain that can work out that if some stick or stone is used in this or that way it will alter a situation beneficially (from the point of view of the tool user) is the sort of brain that can project an outcome in a caring situation too.

Given that we see tool use in some intelligent animals (albeit relatively rudimentary when compared with humans), and we can also see acts of what appears to be kindness which appears to be in response to a dire situation for the recipient, we might reasonably conclude that the motivation is a thought-through response to aleviate peril or suffering.

Jan's article about Dolphins pretty much confirms this (although, because of their body type dolphins don't exhibit tool use, there are other indications that they are very intelligent creatures capable of anticipating the consequences of their actions).  It doesn't benefit Dolphins from any evolutionary point of view, to help humans. It will not be a simple, instictive response, done without thought or measure, because it's a situation that would occur very rarely in the wild and therefore could not have evolved in response to an environmental pressure. So it must be a response which has been decided on the basis of thought, with a projection of a better outcome for the human, and no benefit (other than satisfaction) for the Dolphin.
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Offline Jan

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 14:28:33 »
I think man is the summit of God's creation. Mankind is clearly distinguished from other living creatures. The most profound difference being, man possesses an immortal soul.

and yet what do we have in Ecclesiastes 3:19?

Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless.
'Amor Vincit Omnia' ?

Offline ecuworrier

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2011, 16:41:46 »
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 17:41:43 by ecuworrier »

Offline Jan

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 11:25:22 »
oh for copy and paste eh  ;)  (thanks Ecu  {: )

There are plenty of biblical references regarding animals having souls. I found some on

this link - though even if I couldn't find any bible references I would still believe that animals are there in the afterlife too.
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Offline Jan

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2011, 15:45:45 »
Interesting article ...

Quote
Humans aren't the only altruistic primates. New research demonstrates chimpanzees also show unselfish concern for the welfare of others.

The study, published in the latest Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, negates prior findings that concluded chimpanzees are "indifferent to the welfare" of their fellow chimps.

Insects and many other creatures help each other out, but it's believed that primate altruism is empathy-based, with this trait being widespread among mammals.

"Since empathy is an old mammalian trait, there is no reason why the sort of altruism we describe should be unique for the primates," co-author Frans de Waal, director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes Primate Center, told Discovery News.

here
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Offline Martin

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2011, 17:23:02 »
Excellent article Jan, and very consistent with others I have read.   
It's not just what you're given, it's what you do with what you've got.

Offline Boudi

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 11:37:03 »
anyone who's lived properly with a dog knows that they know when you need comfort, and they will try to give you it even if there's a risk they will get a telling off because you're at your lowest.
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Offline Jan

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 12:42:18 »
our eldest arrived back from work yesterday evening and was treated to a massage ... by one of our cats
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Offline AndrewF

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2011, 15:40:50 »
ALL creation has been redeemed by Christ's death on the cross - can't be bothered to look up the reference but it is in Paul's letters somewhere I think - and why would the rest of creation need redemption if animals had no soul?
Also, as has been noted, they definitely can pick up our emotions and generally try to offer comfort...
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Offline Jan

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2011, 22:19:57 »
Just been watching a captivating program about 'Ocean Giants'. For anyone who might have the mistaken belief that we humans are unique in having  altruistic qualities - just put 'spindle cells whales' into a google search, for a bit of 'light' reading  w:
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Offline ecuworrier

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 11:28:15 »
ALL creation has been redeemed by Christ's death on the cross - can't be bothered to look up the reference but it is in Paul's letters somewhere I think - and why would the rest of creation need redemption if animals had no soul?
Also, as has been noted, they definitely can pick up our emotions and generally try to offer comfort...

can't locate it doing word search as yet though i maybe in the wrong translation!

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Peace and Love,

Offline Jan

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2011, 12:55:56 »
ALL creation has been redeemed by Christ's death on the cross - can't be bothered to look up the reference but it is in Paul's letters somewhere I think - and why would the rest of creation need redemption if animals had no soul?
Also, as has been noted, they definitely can pick up our emotions and generally try to offer comfort...

can't locate it doing word search as yet though i maybe in the wrong translation!

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

Colossians 1:20 - and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

(there are probably more Biblical references to the same point)
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Offline AndrewF

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2011, 21:30:16 »
Thanks Jan!
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Offline JJ

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Re: Do animals care? Can they do caring things?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 07:19:46 »
I'm reading In Defence of Dogs by John Bradshaw and he writes at length about how our dogs love us.  They want to be with us and are focussed on pleasing us to keep that connection close.